The journey begins . . . here.
Neither of us slept that night and by the morning we both reached the conclusion that since we didn’t have an agreement, it would be best to go on the Boat Show and at least have a chance of selling. My husband sent an e-mail to all the directors and the sales agent indicating our wishes. To which we never got a response.
What we didn’t know – is the buyer had already paid the full amount for our boat over to H2O. They had not insisted on these repairs, nor expected us to pay for all of them. They were completely bewildered that we were no longer interested in selling to them and came to speak to us in person the next morning.
Once my husband and the buyers got chatting we realised what we were hearing from H2O and what the buyers were saying – was not the same thing. Since both my husband and the buyers were keen to finalise the sale, they agreed between them, what repairs were necessary and who was responsible.
A figure of around €500 seemed about right. All H2O had to do, was get quotes and details as to how they would effect these repairs. At the next meeting to close the deal, the H2O quote for all the repairs was between €4000 – €5000.
A simple solution to the gas outlet would have been little 8cm x 8cm metal plate cover. Yet H2O were suggesting cutting into the steel and welding it closed costing around €800. They also wanted to withhold the entire value of their quotes for the repairs – from payment to us.
H2O actually admitted using the highest possible amount. And – the most expensive manner in which to quote for the repairs. And that’s not all – H2O wanted to withold even more money from the sale of the boat – for repairs they had done. My better half had been asking them for a latest statement countless times to no avail. And now the prospect of him not paying was yet another excuse to withhold even more money.
He has never once not paid a bill. He does always check them. He has found duplications on his bill from H2O. They were removed when he queried them – but it has happened.
My husband accused H2O of trying to maximise the sale for profit at every point. Whereupon the person from H2O handling the sale said we were welcome to find someone else to do the repairs.
So let’s unpack this. There is another boatyard/agent called Blanchard in St-Jean-de-Losne who are perpetually full and don’t even reply to e-mails or calls. They look after their customer base and do not take on any outsider work.
The guy we were dealing with knew full well that our boat was up on stilts in an H2O boatyard. The likelihood of any other non-H2O engineer working on our boat was unlikely. H2O have a monopoly on boat sales and repairs at a very busy waterways juncture in a tiny little town. There was no-one else we could turn to.
Our options were – going back into the water – and somewhere else. At great expense. It was the end of the boating season. Most boatyards were already full. And many waterways had closed due to low water levels. Let’s be honest – we had our backs right up against a wall. And the person we were dealing with at H2O knew it. Not a nice feeling.
Both my better half and the seller knew what they wanted and had to push for it. My husband said he would accept €1000 off the price and no more. A whole new agreement had to be drawn up. And the conclusion of the sale dragged on yet another day. The following morning the deal was signed and the new owners came to have another look at the boat. I admit I got tearfull all over again.
Selling a boat is as difficult as selling a home. It’s traumatic. We were climbing up a ladder to get to the boat which was up on the hard. We had no toilet. Our Happy Place was a mass of boxes to take, things to be tossed and cleaning stuff. If only we had been treated better it might have been less stressful.
Stepping back from this experience I made a decision to put what happened to us out in the public domain. H2O have a brilliant webpage with glowing reviews. When we were looking for a place to winter coming down from the Netherlands in 2015, it seemed a no-brainer.
Alarm bells started ringing for us when we spoke to other people on the waterways. There are people who have good things to say about them. But an overwhleming number of people did not view H2O in a good light. Someone had been writing derogatory comments in the locks near Piepape when we first made our way to Burgundy. H2O = voleurs. We didn’t even know what that meant.
We have since put this experience behind us. And choose to remember the happy days on our beloved boat. The new owners sent us pics of Shangri la with new awanings and she is loved.
Well done for sharing. It’s a lesson learned I think for so many of us.
What a nightmare I wish you and the new owners all the best for the future.
Well done for sharing. It’s a lesson learned I think for so many of us.
What a nightmare I wish you and the new owners all the best for the future.
Dear Karen,
Thank you for taking the time to write this interesting blog about France. I’ve enjoyed reading it thoroughly. This latest one, I must say, has come as a surprise to me. Indeed, I’d been communicating with you by text (whatsapp), email and even sent you a letter to ask for any feedback you may have. We send these systematically and I love receiving our customers’ answers. We’re a small family business and all four partners read each letter. We quickly make changes when these are required.
I’m really sorry you feel disappointed with your experience. I never realised that might be the case. I liked meeting you and your husband, felt we had been communicating well. I was happy that we managed to find a buyer in less than one month, sell your boat for just under your asking price, do the work required and get the money to you within two months.
Nowadays it’s so easy to hurt a business, group, person by venting ones anger online (or on a railing, which also had some friendly sentences about us – takes all kinds to make a world…). I will refrain from delving into each point to clarify what actually happened from my perspective, as I don’t feel that this is the right medium. I will follow your lead and do so, if you prefer. However please let me reiterate that I am more than happy to discuss your feedback.
We’re passionate about boating (have been for over 45 years now…) and all our employees young and old are happy to change if they feel this is going to make for a better customer experience. Therefor to ensure we continue offering a large selection of boats, mooring places, an all-encompassing service to boaters, please feel free to call me anytime on my mobile 00336 317 317 33 or email me directly at max@h2ofrance.com
I hope you’ve had a relaxing time over the holidays. Your boat is currently in our undercover storage area. It’s looking as good as ever. I was chatting to the new owners just the other day and they are loving her.
Warm regards
Max Gerard
Hi Max
Your comment has been approved and your right to reply respected.
It comes as a surprise to me that you did not know we were unhappy. There were heated exchanges between yourself and my husband Patrick.
Plus, there’s an e-mail trail you can refer to, where his unhappiness is patently obvious.
You can refer back to the invoices for work done to see just how many times Patrick paid for the leak to be fixed.
You can also refer back to really old correspondence from Patrick requesting new invoices to resolve almost €3000 which was overcharged.
These are facts.
The boat sold in less than 2 months due the it being priced to sell – and – because it was well looked after.
Yes, you have a client base and knew the buyers would love Shangri La. She would have sold anyway.
I don’t believe my blog is going to tank H2O.
If you read other blogs, and social media, and even garfitti on the canals, you will surely know that H2O does not enjoy a good reputation on the waterways. And that repuation Max . . . . is a result of how you treat your customers.
No amount of comments on my blog can fix a tarnished repuation. If anything, it will only reinforce the perception that you are trying to silence a critic and not address the real problem.
Regards,
Karen.
I agree. Our experience at H2O was traumatic to say the least!
Dear Patrick and Karen,
I’ve taken the time to respond to your comments one by one. I’m hoping this will help you understand some aspects, which you’ve maybe seen from a different perspective. And while we try to do our job as well as we can and communicate clearly with our customers, it’s obvious that this can’t be perfect every time. Hopefully this email will serve to amend this. Then we can leave this behind us and both move on with our busy lives running businesses in South Africa and France. I’m sure you and I have better and more positive things to do with our time.
/////Hi Max
Your comment has been approved and your right to reply respected./////
Thank you.
///////It comes as a surprise to me that you did not know we were unhappy. There were heated exchanges between yourself and my husband Patrick.///////
I know you were worried about the many leaks on your boat, which I understand. There were oils leaks, cooling water leaks and exhaust water leaks. We had to sort them out one at a time, which is a lengthy procedure. Unfortunately, it’s the only solution. However, you and I were able to chat in a friendly manner throughout. None of our discussions or email exchanges became heated. I personally came to your boat and we talked in the office. It was always pleasant and friendly. We discussed and agreed on how to go ahead with repair work every step of the way.
////Plus, there’s an e-mail trail you can refer to, where his unhappiness is patently obvious.//////
I’ve taken the time to go through our email exchanges to ensure my memory wasn’t betraying me. I can’t find any upset emails. Many technical issues had to be dealt with by email. But you received answers to all your questions. And as well as repairing each problem on your boat, we tried to provide you with detailed technical information in English every step of the way.
//////You can refer back to the invoices for work done to see just how many times Patrick paid for the leak to be fixed.//////
We did indeed send you several invoices as we itemized the work done on your boat. There were lots of leaks. We sent you an invoice for each leak. Our accountant can provide you with a copy of these if you like.
///////You can also refer back to really old correspondence from Patrick requesting new invoices to resolve almost €3000 which was overcharged.///////////
In the bills between 2015 and 2018, I have found some mistakes, which we resolved immediately. I have gone through all the old emails to find this big amount overcharged. I’ve also asked my accountant to find it. We can’t seem to. Do you have any communication with the workshop about this that could help me find these?
///These are facts.
The boat sold in less than 2 months due the it being priced to sell – and – because it was well looked after.//////
Shangri La is indeed a nice boat, which you had looked after well. Nice to see. You’re right. Maybe we just gave a helping hand.
///////Yes, you have a client base and knew the buyers would love Shangri La. She would have sold anyway.///////
I’m glad we were able to help. The buyer is one of our loyal customers. We were sure he’d love your boat.
//////I don’t believe my blog is going to tank H2O.
If you read other blogs, and social media, and even garfitti on the canals, you will surely know that H2O does not enjoy a good reputation on the waterways. And that repuation Max . . . . is a result of how you treat your customers.////////
Social media has become a perfect place to vent one’s anger and share belligerent comments. It does feel good to be able to put someone down and then have others agree. We also have many clients who have been with us for many years and are satisfied or even happy with our service.
Naturally as with any business with many clients, there are a few disgruntled ones. We try our very best to understand them so as to improve our service. That’s why I send letters and emails asking for feedback, like those you received. Many clients choose this constructive way of communicating. I would have been happy to receive an answer from you. As with you, I answer every client. Then if I go see the employees who have dealt with this person and ensure they know how to improve their service.
When someone eats in a restaurant, they leave a review for the dish they chose and enjoyed. However, we’re selling boats, where technical issues (such as leaks) may be complex and outside of our control. While we try our best to fix the issues, sometimes clients confuse these with the service.
///////No amount of comments on my blog can fix a tarnished repuation. If anything, it will only reinforce the perception that you are trying to silence a critic and not address the real problem./////////
That’s an unnecessary low blow. If I wanted to silence critics, I wouldn’t take the time to answer. On the contrary, I’d rather understand, respond respectfully and make changes where they are needed.
//////Neither of us slept that night and by the morning we both reached the conclusion that since we didn’t have an agreement, it would be best to go on the Boat Show and at least have a chance of selling. My husband sent an e-mail to all the directors and the sales agent indicating our wishes. To which we never got a response.////////
We didn’t answer the email sent on September 21, 2018 immediately as you came into the office that very same day and we were able to answer all your questions face to face to finalize the sale’s contract there and then. This contract was signed with the buyer within a few hours.
///////What we didn’t know – is the buyer had already paid the full amount for our boat over to H2O. They had not insisted on these repairs, nor expected us to pay for all of them. They were completely bewildered that we were no longer interested in selling to them and came to speak to us in person the next morning./////////
The buyer had already given a down-payment. This was before he’d chosen, which boat to buy. He knew he wanted to buy one through H2O and wanted to be able to settle quickly. He had sold his 500,000€ boat with us. He had not authorized the purchase yet. He wanted the repairs done. They cost about 1050€.
//////Once my husband and the buyers got chatting we realised what we were hearing from H2O and what the buyers were saying – was not the same thing. Since both my husband and the buyers were keen to finalise the sale, they agreed between them, what repairs were necessary and who was responsible./////////
The buyer told us that he wanted these repairs done before buying the boat. He wanted some financial compensation for the other work needed, as stated by the surveyor.
///////A figure of around €500 seemed about right. All H2O had to do, was get quotes and details as to how they would effect these repairs. At the next meeting to close the deal, the H2O quote for all the repairs was between €4000 – €5000./////////
Patrick Knight and the buyer had requested quotes for all work needed on the boat to solve the issues pointed out by the surveyor and to solve the oil leaks. This is what we provided you with.
/////////A simple solution to the gas outlet would have been little 8cm x 8cm metal plate cover. Yet H2O were suggesting cutting into the steel and welding it closed costing around €800. They also wanted to withhold the entire value of their quotes for the repairs – from payment to us.
H2O actually admitted using the highest possible amount. And – the most expensive manner in which to quote for the repairs. ///////
Neither you nor our mechanics could see where the leaks were coming from. We explained that, as some parts of the engine had to be dismantled to check how serious the problem was, we could provide you with a “worst case scenario” quote. You wanted a price before our technicians could visualize these leaks on your boat. You agreed at the time that this was the best way to move forward. It made sense to you.
///////And that’s not all – H2O wanted to withold even more money from the sale of the boat – for repairs they had done. My better half had been asking them for a latest statement countless times to no avail. And now the prospect of him not paying was yet another excuse to withhold even more money.
He has never once not paid a bill. He does always check them. He has found duplications on his bill from H2O. They were removed when he queried them – but it has happened.///////
Please see above.
///////My husband accused H2O of trying to maximise the sale for profit at every point. Whereupon the person from H2O handling the sale said we were welcome to find someone else to do the repairs.
So let’s unpack this. There is another boatyard/agent called Blanchard in St-Jean-de-Losne who are perpetually full and don’t even reply to e-mails or calls. They look after their customer base and do not take on any outsider work.
The guy we were dealing with knew full well that our boat was up on stilts in an H2O boatyard. The likelihood of any other non-H2O engineer working on our boat was unlikely. H2O have a monopoly on boat sales and repairs at a very busy waterways juncture in a tiny little town. There was no-one else we could turn to.
Our options were – going back into the water – and somewhere else. At great expense. It was the end of the boating season. Most boatyards were already full. And many waterways had closed due to low water levels. Let’s be honest – we had our backs right up against a wall. And the person we were dealing with at H2O knew it. Not a nice feeling.////////
You came back several times over the years, between 2015 and 2018 to have maintenance and repair work done on your boat by our technical teams at H2O. We’ve had your boat in our undercover area over winter. There are indeed other places where work can be done on boats. However, you chose to come back to H2O for maintenance and your boat sale, as do many of our clients. And we thank you for this.
////////Both my better half and the seller knew what they wanted and had to push for it. My husband said he would accept €1000 off the price and no more. A whole new agreement had to be drawn up. And the conclusion of the sale dragged on yet another day. The following morning the deal was signed and the new owners came to have another look at the boat. I admit I got tearfull all over again.///////////
Unfortunately, the survey did bring up a few technical issues with your boat and admittedly the buyer asked for the price to be brought down by 1050€ to deal with some of these. I know this is always frustrating for a seller but I do believe it was fair for all parties.
/////////Selling a boat is as difficult as selling a home. It’s traumatic. We were climbing up a ladder to get to the boat which was up on the hard. We had no toilet. Our Happy Place was a mass of boxes to take, things to be tossed and cleaning stuff. If only we had been treated better it might have been less stressful.//////////
I know that these can be difficult times emotionally and for practical reasons (being on dry is never fun). We try to be there every step of the way and have amenities for our clients.
Unfortunately, during your sale, we also had to deal with a client making his boat explode, being badly injured, destroying one of our pontoons and several other boats. That was traumatic indeed. Also not an easy period for our employees, who were under a lot of pressure because of this quite dramatic accident. Luckily our client is doing well now. And we’re slowly resolving all the complicated insurance issues for our clients.
///////Stepping back from this experience I made a decision to put what happened to us out in the public domain. H2O have a brilliant webpage with glowing reviews. When we were looking for a place to winter coming down from the Netherlands in 2015, it seemed a no-brainer.
Alarm bells started ringing for us when we spoke to other people on the waterways. There are people who have good things to say about them. But an overwhleming number of people did not view H2O in a good light. Someone had been writing derogatory comments in the locks near Piepape when we first made our way to Burgundy. H2O = voleurs. We didn’t even know what that meant./////////
We may have to agree to disagree on this point, as I still believe it’s best to voice these issues face to face first if possible, especially if you’re dealing with a business owner who want to hear his clients’ comments to improve the company’s service.
////////We have since put this experience behind us. And choose to remember the happy days on our beloved boat. The new owners sent us pics of Shangri la with new awanings and she is loved./////////
I hope we can now move on from this. I’ve read and understood your comments. I agree that this is a particularly stressful time and that we need to make this as easy as possible for our customers. We will endeavor to do this as well as we can. I hope you’re enjoying this new chapter in your life.
Warm regards to you and Patrick
Max Gérard
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